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 In NC, we can have Red / White / Amber lights but no sirens, and also have to obey all traffic laws and stop at traffic lights.

Story:

During a response to a call one night, several of us were trying to make it to the station.While enroute, two of us caught a Red Light and had to stop and wait for the light to change green. My fellow firefighter was running red lights up to the point the light changed. So he turned his redlights off while waiting for the light to change, then turned them on again once the light changed and he could make it straight through the intersection.

Well, during this time it happened to be shift-change for the local City law enforcement and I saw 2 police units waiting in turn lanes at the intersection. One of the officers noticed that my fellow firefighter had turned off his redlight, and was sitting at the intersection (Like he was supposed to). The officer then eased out of the turn lane and positioned himself behind the POV FF while waiting to the light to change (Officer did not turn on his blue lights, just waited at this point).  The officer decided to pull him over after he was able to proceed through the intersection, while trying to continue to respond to the Station, which was about 1/2 mile away.

I found out later that the officer stopped him to find out why he had a redlight on the dash and why he had turned them off at the intersection!!???

He had to explain to the officer that he was a Volunteer FF responding to a fire call and had to show him his FD Picture ID. Long story short, he missed the truck, but didn't get a ticket. He also said that this had happened to him before.

Has anyone else experienced this anywhere? and as a rhetorial question, why doesn't local law enforcement know the law?

Side Note: If you live in North Carolina here's the link to the State Statutes regarding this matter:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_20/GS_20-130.1.html

I try to never use my lights on the POV. They just bring un needed attention to us.

That being said I was responding to  the station in a 25 mph zone late one evening, was pulled over for traveling 32mph, which I did not realise I was doing, but quickly was told to continue on once I told officer I was in route to station to retireve a pumper. I did not mind it at all. Was glad to see them keeping me in check 

In Jersey, we use blue lights., and because of a law change, we are now considered emergency vehicles when our lights are on. Cars must pull over for us. ( they still dont) and if they get caught not pulling over ( which they dont) They get a $500 ticket for not giving right of way to an emergency vehicle.  We still have to obey all traffic laws, and turn off our lights at a red light.  

Excellent point Chip. And in all honesty, we all have different circumstances is our respected areas. You also hit the nail on the head by pointing out using the lights "responsibly". Get one member that gets a department t-shirt and gear then goes off half cocked. There is bound to be trouble. Pisses the cops off also when they get a member saying "I'm a firefighter. You cannot write me up. You are making me miss the fire truck!" Ahaha too bad idiot, you also missed the part where it says "Police Officer" in bold reflective on the car with the blue lights. lol

Take care fellas, time to get going.

Regards,
John

 Our Cops run Red and blue.  At fire scenes they just block traffic. 

Forgot to mention earlier. The department policy requires the Chiefs authorization and signature in order for a Volunteer to run a single dash light, grill lights, any kind of warning light system on a member's POV.

i will probably get "flamed" for the following two sentences but what the heck, I've got thick skin. lol

IMHO, if there is not a policy in place already, Career or Volunteer Members that wish to run the "courtesy" lights should be screened and be required to be cleared by their respective Departmental Chief, driving committee or equal to the listed.

I cannot feel bad for a guy that is already under the needle by running warning lights on his POV getting cited for a seatbelt violation or any violation. Could the officer exercised a little professional courtesy and taken the guy's information and let him go with a warning? Sure he could have. Was the guy needed to get that rig out the door? Did not say he was since the rig left without him.

I don't know, maybe it's due to my length of service and run my share of calls over the years and gotten to know many of the local law enforcement from working calls with them. But come on, the first situation the cop let the guy go, he just wanted to know WTF was going on and who was running the light.

Does law enforcement "have" to give firefighters a break or extend professional courtesy? Not at all, but most often it is extended. Was the member out of line for pulling the "I don't know but I hope it was to your house" line of sass. That is conduct unbecoming and makes the rest of the Firefighters look bad.

There is something called mutal respect, the guy messed up, he also ran into a by the book officer that maybe some other f/f had made the same childish remark to him. I guess maybe I have missed something, when did it become part of the Firefighter code of ethics to expect anything instead of appreciating when a break is given and biting the bullet when you get written.

jbeck308, you were one of the first people to send me a friend request and you;ve known me quite a while now. You know my comments are not a direct attack. i hope at least, don't hurt me too bad lol

 State cops yes.  Town cops no...  Our Mutual aid town got a call to a roll over on route 80.  and the State cop told the chief to cancel all apparatus because of traffic back ups. so the chief gave a little argument over it and had 1 truck respond to clean up fluid spills then leave. Mind you the passengers in the car were shaken but not injured. and refused medical treatment.    So state cops run the show yes. They are a pain. nothing like having a cop that doesnt want you to block off a lane of traffic to help at an accident. or car fire. 

My dad relayed a story when he was Chief...........they were called to a MVA involving a overturned gasoline tanker of the roadway, down an enbankment. It so happened to be leaking, and since it was close to the road they shut down the highway ( it was a busy State road). A MSHP trooper that the always had problems with ( "This is MY highway!! was his favorite saying) showed up on scene and told my dad that they were going to open the highway up for traffic because it backing up. Dad told him that he would turn over the scene to AFTER he signes a waiver stating that re released the FD from any liablity. Well needless to say the road remained closed. 

P.S. It took going to the Zone Office to get things straightened out. Haven't had much trouble with them since.  

 Well. My mom was driving with me to go pick up something to eat. and a Vol. Firefighter from another town was at a red light with his blue light on. and my mom Slammed on her brakes in the middle of the intersection to let him go. but state law is that you have to stop for all red lights. so he could have caused a second accident since he had his lights on. but had he turned them off. my mom would not have seen the flashing.

There are some awesome posts in this topic.  Tek, you made an excellent point in one of yours as always.  Since when do we go expecting LEO's to be courteous and lenient on us?  They're not required to do that at all.  They have a job to do, just like us.  Are some unprofessional in some of their approaches?  Sure, but I haven't come across anyone that is perfect.  In Kentucky, our chiefs have to sign off that we are allowed to run emergency equipment on our POV's.  We also carry a picture ID stating that we are allowed to do just that and includes our department name and so on.  Our chief is very selective in who he allows to do this, and who he doesn't.  Some folks are curteous and pull over.  Some pull over and block you accidentally.  Some do not pull over at all.  We are allowed to use red and clear lights with siren.  Although some members do it occasionally, you run a great risk (insurance liability) if you have your lights on, and are not using a siren as well.  Especially if you are using the allotted 10 over on the speed limit.  We have to stop at all intersections and stop signs, however, once traffic has stopped, we continue on.  There are many pro's and con's to using emergency equipment on your POV.  The best advice that I can give is to be selective of when you use it, and be extremely vigilant about your surroundings.  You are no good to your fellow FF's if you don't make it there at all, verses, getting there a couple minutes later.  Oh, you might not get to do an interior attack?  You might have to be safety officer, or in charge of rehab or accountability?  And that doesn't get your testosterone and adrenaline going, so you put everything else, including SAFETY on the line.  POOR DECISION!  Just some things to chew on.........Enjoy!

my response to mhfdprobie was due to the fact that in pa., the first on scene fire chief IS NOT always the i.c., but it usually is ( i.e.: if running a mutual aid call, my chief will not assume command in someone else's local, unless there are no other officers enroute......common courtesy).  if pd is on scene first, they usually give a report that is relayed to any one of the responding chiefs.  as mhfd stated, municipal police are not in charge( unless an mva).  even staties in pa., are not in charge, unless it's an mva ( considered crime scene).  this can change if the officer gives a fire chief command at an mva.  fire scenes, a command post is established.  but the first on scene chief may take ops, or some other branch of the incident command system. 

now as far as my question to you goes,  i think you're point is a valid one.  but i was just wondering that if you are going to shut your lights off for any reason,  why have them on at all.  and your feelings are quite evident.  i do also realize you are in n.c. where things may be completely different,  but that obviously does not mean they are the same as everywhere else.  if the law enforcement in your local do not know the law,  that is a problem that should be addressed between your dept., and the police.  or the officer and his/her superiors.  i would much rather have my lights on before i go thru the light, in case the person that is coming thru the intersection, about to blow his/her red light ( while mine is now green) , might have the chance of seeing me. 

if we all want to keep safety in mind,  we should never leave the house.  we all know this is a dangerous job,  but let's use all of our safety resources to make sure it's the safest it could possibly be.

my opinions only.

Hey john, I know where you are coming from so no harm intended

just kinda sucks for our guy that is only going 2 blocks with out flashing lights ( maybe he would not of gotten wrote up if he had a light flashing ?? )  we will never know i guess.

as far as the flippant retort, I probally would of done worse (lol)

see ya !!

TekRSQ says ...

Nice seeing the thread grow, a lot of excellent points that I learned from too.

- The comment about keeping them on to act as an early warning for the "Pink" light runner, great point.

- The comment "You are no good to your fellow FF's if you don't make it there at all, verses, getting there a couple minutes later.  Oh, you might not get to do an interior attack?  You might have to be safety officer, or in charge of rehab or accountability?  And that doesn't get your testosterone and adrenaline going, so you put everything else, including SAFETY on the line.  POOR DECISION!"

I have to agree and chuckle after reading that one. I've been that member that showed up after the fire was out, had the guys that caught the heat say "damn, you missed it Dude! Might as well have not come to the fire, ahahahaha lol".  They are so far from the truth. There is so much more work to do on a fire scene then just putting the wet stuff on the red stuff or whatever. Hose lines need to be drained and rolled or packed, help with overhaul, help with filling bottles, etc.

Been many times I stopped by with gear in hand since the rigs all got out on the initial call and said to the IC "checking in with you, came in my POV. Need me for anything, any crews light? I'm here to work if you need me" If he says "go stand with Engine blah and stand by." or "No, we've got it covered, thanks". It's all good. If by chance I am put to work, even rolling hose, I will always checkout with the IC and thank him for letting me work on the scene.

AS that kissing ass? Not in my book. it is number 1 respecting the IC's scene and also freeing up manpower which may be needed for other tasks. That IC did not have to put me to work, he could've just as easily said "you did not come on a rig nor is this a second alarm, leave!" But in our industry, be ready to do the non-glorious work or just stay on the porch.

- if the law enforcement in your local do not know the law,  that is a problem that should be addressed between your dept., and the police.  or the officer and his/her superiors.

Good one Shaun, so simple yet so over looked. Problems with a local or even a State Trooper. Next time you see then controlling an intersection when the traffic lights are out or for some event. Stop and pick up a few bottles of water, drop them off and say "been in your position before. Sucks directing traffic and nothing to drink." Laugh if you want, toss tomatoes if you want but it helps. Had a LEO working a wreck one night that wanted to keep us for lighting, even though his "take down lights" were sufficient. He was just being a jerk, had a bad day i guess. Another officer showed up and recognized me as the guy that stopped 6 months earlier and said "been in your position before. I'm a f/f here in town, we help each other out." He told the other officer "this guy needs to get going, if you don't need them, let them leave.

He walked over, shook my hand, said "thank you again for the water. You were right, it does suck being in the heat and nothing cold to drink lol I never forgot that gesture on your part."

Sorry, am rambling. Guess my point is theis. We can try to fight badge against badge or we can get the line of communication opened and keep it open. We don;t know their SOP's they do not know ours. Maybe a meeting in the middle will help both sides co-habitate?

 

 

 

 

 

Great point.  I think next time i see an officer directing traffic on  a warm or hot day. I might stop and pick up a bottle or two of water for him

TekRSQ says ...

 

As long as you do not Photoshop a "bikini" on me in one of my profile pictures, I'll be fine lol

Take care my friend.

John

hey john We Really did not need that mental pic in are heads now I am going to half to go take to a srink now. thanks alot brother||| lol

that's funny.  here in pa., if we are caught using hazards in lieu of blue lights, they'll give us a ticket.  at least in our local.  in other parts of the county, they can be more layed back.

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