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I agree that it does take people to run a FD even tho it's a volunteer dept. Not only do you "volunteer" your time but you make a commitment to the dept by being there when you can. I realise that people have other jobs when working on a volunteer dept and families and what not, and that's understandable, but the least you can do is put some time in. But I have seen a volunteer dept become more like a full time dept and have pissed alot of people off. I know of a dept that assumes that all their "volunteers" will do this and that and that does piss me off. In that same dept a FF was fired cause he didnt go to ALL the trainings cause he has a family and a job to deal with and that pissed me off. To kick a guy off the dept cause he has other obligations and cant be there everyday I think is rediculos. My dept especially is getting this way and it sucks. Like I said it's becoming more like a full time dept and that we have to be at every thing that happens. Dont get me wrong, I love what I do and it is a career choice for me. I love to volunteer and do things in the dept but I have a life to live of my own. i do keep up with all my trainings and such, I make sure of that.  

I'm in agreance too. My department understands people have jobs and families. But they still ask that you atleast make 5 runs a month including a night run. They also ask that you attend the monthly training companies. They are offered once in the morning and once in the evening every 3rd Wednesday and Thursday. We also have monthly meeting every 2nd Thursday of the month. If you can't make it then you call in. You are told when the training events are and if you can make those then you have make-up training. All that is is a sheet of paper full of questions relating to the training events you missed. You are given like a week or two to get it done. If you are a no-call and continually miss meetings and training events then apparently you are too busy with work and family and you kindly let go untill you have a better schedule. No hard feelings or anything.

I don't think people should be paid for doing something they love....I find alot of times people only enjoy having the Title "firefighter" but dont  want to do the work that comes along with it.

i agree with everyone we should do what we need to. i was going to school on three hours away from my department i told them i was going to school and would help on the weekends when i was home like work on the out of service truck and go to calls, they were good with that. I got a call the other day saying they need my gear and radio cause they didnt need me anymore.

whats up with that?

Being Paid does not make you a Proffesional, I work shift work and I have a Family but I know when the page goes off, Someone is having a bad day and it don't matter if I'm asleep or eating I GO. Not meaning to change the subject but, Is there a NFPA standard or State law that says how many hours you are required to train each year?

I completely understand that nobody can commit all of there time but i feel that if you want to be in a department then there should be some sort of strong commitment.  In my department we have training and worknights every monday of the month and our meetings are on tuesdays.  It has been like that since as long as i can remember.  Now i understand things come up, people work shift work and such, but everyone knows that those are set dates.  I just cant buy it that people say they are to busy to show up 5 days a month.  i would be happy if some of the guys will show up to two trainings a month.  But yet these people will show up for calls, and not just any call, it has to be a big one for them to show up.  How can i feel secure putting them in an active role on the fire ground when they wont show up to learn how things are being done, especially if something has changed?

Exactly!  But what do you do with them, if you pull privileges they quit or get mad and show up even less, or you just let it keep goin on and then others feel they can get away with it also.  Ive dropped subtle hints to some of them and it seems to work for a little while but then they go right back into that state of ok im gonna show up if its something i can tell all my buddies about and make me look like a hero

I've noticed alot of volunteer departments dont do as thorough psych evals as paid departments do, I believe the situations stems from this, The guys that dont do anything, dont show up, or say im not doing that, im not paid for it, etc..., are only signing to get the title,(for whatever reason they want to use it for) Its dangerous to the department, fellow firefighters, as well as the public they serve. You choose to VOLUNTEER, knowing you wont be getting paid from before you sign the contract for doing everything a full-time paid firefighter would. Personaly, I dont want these types of people working behind me, It potentially puts my life in danger because they dont want to do something. DONT LIKE IT OR DONT WANT TO DO ALL THE WORK= DONT SIGN THE CONTRACT OR QUIT. 

I agree with you weifert, let them qiut.  The ones that only show up when they the run is "good enough" for their response are only endangering the rest of the department.  When showing up for training or meetings we form bonds and gel with the other members of the department, which can only help increase safety at the scene.  I personally would be uneasy of having a member back me up if they were not up to speed with the latest training or sop's.    A suggestion for hallberg, mandate requirements for training.  Being required to attend a certain percentage of trainings may help in the weeding process, i.e. DON'T  MEET THE MINIMUM TRAINING REQUIREMENT YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RESPOND.  I know that sounds harsh and yes they may leave but then hopefully you would be able to fill the spot with someone who is more dedicated to the department.  What we do is NOT a hobby!!!!!

USMCFF413 says ...

In the state of kentucky on a volunteer department have at least a minimum of 20 training hours every year....

My company mandates 36 annual training hours.

Rayz,

I agree with what you said.  Complacent is a good term.  I find that the stiffer resistance is coming from the older members.  They are still mad that they can not drink at the station anymore, and are filling the heads of the new recruits.  The fire service is an ever evolving child.  New policy and techniques are developed everyday.  I spend over 300 hours a year doing functions for the fire department.  That does not include all the time I spend at home doing papaerwork.  I would rather have a department of 6 that are totally involved, than 22 that show up 5-6 times a year and complain about training.  We do have our crew, we are called the faithful 4.  Short of being out of town, or at work and can't get away, we are almost always there.  All we can do is weed out the ones who do not play well. and nuture the good ones.

this is completly true. people do need to realize this

To think about it, we on our department train two times a month and are always going back to school! We have just rolled out a MABAS ( Mutual Aid Box Alarm System) here in Dane County in the State of Wisconsin, and the rules read with this new system  that you have to be a State Certified Firefighter to jump on the truck to respond to these type of fires. This means that you have to have proper training and have went through the Fire Schools to be able to do anything. I hate the fact that people think that we are just volunteers so we dont have to train, well I am here to tell you they would last about a week on our department. If anything we have to train harder and receive more schooling than Full time guys because we dont alway respond to calls everyday. We pay for our members to go to school a learn and will send them where ever in the country to see that they get the best training. No we are not a paid service and no one complains about this fact, we have roughly about 900 to a 1000 fire and accident calls per year not to mention our EMS service who is right up around 1200 calls per year as well. Our service has a proud history of no loss time deaths because of a Fire Scene, we have been operating for over a 100 years now. This is just my opinion dont take it the wrong way but you can never be to safe or train too much. As soon as you think you have mastered this career it is time to look for a new one. Jeremy in Wisconsin...

Firenoid5 says ...

Snow,

These officers, are they appointed or elected?  If they are appointed and your Chief does nothing, then that is part of the problem.  I have replaced people for this very reason.  If they are elected, vote them out.  If they are officers and that is their attitude, they do not need to be officers.  Officers are supposed to lead the department.  My Captains are in charge of the members under the guidane of the the Chief and I.  I recently had one of the "I am a volunteer" people on a fire.  He never came to training with the others.  When he got all packed up to go in the fire, I told him sorry, he could go help with water supply.  I need people who have trained together and can trust each other.  He was very mad, but I will make that same decision everytime, and my Chief will back me.

well the main person that has this mentality is appointed how I dont really know but he is a leader for the whole town.  and from what I hear and have talked to other members about he used to be one of the front guys to go to if you wanted to know about the fire service.  But somewheres along the line he got complacent with how things were.  The major problem with that is he doesnt understand that there are standards that need to be met and the actual firefighters for the department would like to uphold to as many as we can.  its more of been used as an excuse to prevent a certified training course to be done and to help save money.  As is we already dont have much to hand out.  But A couple of us fear it might either shut us down if we get fined by the department of labor or even worse some one could be hurt or killed do to improper training.

In my personal opinion if you are one that says well I am only volunteer I dont have to do this or that.  Your doing more of a disservice to your town.  Yeah you might be ready to go for a fully involved structure but your not at the car accidents in the middle of the night or helping direct traffic for a line down.  And mostly your letting your team down that depends on every member to help out and be involved.

~Kevin

I learned Saturday at a Leadership and department management training class that voting on membership entry to the department is technically, illegal.

Anyway to respond that it is only a volunteer department. Sounds like there's a little lack of understanding of what a volunteer really is. A volunteer has to do more than is normally expected. That is what a true volunteer is. Volunteer firefighters have to pass the same NFPA 1001 FF1 as career firefighters. The same emt certifications. Take the same NIMS courses.

With the ever increasing fire service demands and the increasing full time job pressures, volunteer FFs are very much in the middle of the squeeze.

Those volunteers that feel they have done enough, well when they get a decade in they can slack off some, but if they are in some particular charge of a responding unit, they need to continue to train for that position. I don't care if they have 67 years in. (I met one yesterday, joined the department at 19 and looked great btw)

A volunteer can decide to slack off from department commitments, but if they do they must not lead.

And to those volunteers attending school or away to Iraq or wherever, you should not have your membership taken away, but instead maybe a reserve status. Your turnouts or wildland ppe's may be needed at the station so happily give it back. Upon your return you should go to the head of the line. Young, strong back of guts young men with prior service usually do.